Posted by David Hunt on December 13, 1999 at 08:14:24:
In Reply to: Re: seagrass! posted by Evan Lauridsen on December 12, 1999 at 21:08:23:
: I just wanted to say that I appreciate the professional reply that David gave regarding this question (sounded like a CFI Master installer replying...no offense if your not one). I just wanted to make one comment. While i worked for an adhesive manuf in tech services for a few years, i saw many types of backings, but seldom did i remember seeing this type of product. I too would think that it is an dimensionally unstable product, and its nice to here David talk about it in a positive tone, but you know us technical people we always look at negatives! :o)
: Dimensionally unstable carpets can work against you, in cases of shrinkage at seams, etc. David is right about using a premium adhesive, and i would tend to think a little more advanced in saying that you might want a higher solids adhesive (less water) and maybe even an acrylic formulation that either sets hard or has pressure sensitive abilities...worse yet you may need a one or two part urethane, but really when it comes down to it testing the product before doing the actual installation is probably the best way to go, because I saw many products react differently to different types of adhesives.
: Believe it or not there are some adhesives manuf out there that will test and make recommendations for a particular adhesive at no charge. While this service may take several weeks to get results, its worth it when you are dealing with unknown territory. The benefit the adhesive manuf gets is to put a unknown product through rigorous testing to see if they will have problems which will lead to warranty issues. Plus, if it passes they let the flooring manuf know with the hopes that they get an adhesive recommendation for all the work and money they spent testing. The key to getting the product tested at no charge (esp if your not the floor manuf.) is to have complete information on the product incl manuf. name, address and phone number, along with providing a sufficient sample of the product for testing (typically a 4' by 12' will take care of most tests and can be sent ups). Don't send material to an adhesive manuf. without approval first (generally obtained through your adhesive distributor) and if you are refused testing by one adh manuf, try another. The worst thing will happen is that they will tell you they already tested and they either have an adhesive recommendation, or they don't (meaning either the product is too dimensionally unstable, adhesives won't grab good enough or some other issue with the product that worries them).
: Happy Holidays to all, Evan Lauridsen
: Lauridsen & Assoc. Flooring & Tile Tech Services
Abit more on seagrass and some thoughts to ponder. Evan is absolutly correct, when an installer finds themselves with an unfamiliar product the first person to call is the manufacture's technical services department. One of the advantages to being a CFI member is the pre-established resource network of industry professionals. Anyhoo, our industry is changing and the phrase "everything thats old is new again" really applies. Seagrass is not new. In fact, it has been used for centuries and for several decades as broadloom flooring. Never assume that just because a product is unfamiliar to you, it must be new. Having been on the market for several decades there are proven installation methods and adhesives which will yeild a sucessful installation when followed.
The backings used on seagrass (and sisal, coir & jutes) serves two purposes. One, to enhance its demonsional stability with the second being to prevent the adhesive from seeping though the weave. It is my contention that double-stick method provides the end user with the best installation of these products. (email me for more specifics) Nonetheless, the BIG, BIG question is this; When you find yourself with an unfamiliar product do you:
A.) Install it anyway and complain about what a piece of junk it is and vow never to install that trash again.
or
B.) Do you realize that there may be more to installing floors than you thought and you use this installation as a learning experience and an opportunity to expand your views of our industry. To increase and appreciate your (our) constant need for continual improvement and installation training. Will you realize that with the ability to install these materials properly and profitablly your services are more valuable and you have taken the first step to distinguish you from the hack-n-slahers that abound in our trade?
Which do you do?